Post by Nadica (She/Her) on Aug 14, 2024 2:08:07 GMT
Alabama still demanding people pay back COVID unemployment: ‘it’s just been horrible’ - Published Aug 13, 2024
For Spencer Johnson, memorizing three Japanese writing systems has been easier than deciphering Alabama’s unemployment system.
“The most confusing thing I have ever done,” he said of trying to negotiate with the Alabama Department Labor, a group whose bungled handling of pandemic benefits will wind up in front of the U.S. Supreme Court in October.
Johnson, 30, is studying Japanese at the University of Alabama and has launched a business to help English and Japanese speakers broach the language divide. He plans to finish his degree in Japan. But, like many in Alabama, he’s still trying settle an old unemployment dispute, as the state wants him to give back $4,000.
Many Alabamians who got unemployment benefits during the pandemic, both the state money and the extra $600 from the federal government, have received notices over the last four years that they were overpaid and owe money back, often thousands of dollars, in many cases due to errors in the department’s clunky computer system, small mistakes in their applications or missing information.
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When COVID hit, Johnson was in his last semester at Coastal Alabama Community College. He got hired to work for the Census for the summer and was going to Tuscaloosa to start UA for the fall of 2020. He started onboarding for the job and was immediately let go because of COVID, so he applied for unemployment. After a few months, when school started, Johnson said, he voluntarily quit getting benefits.
A couple of years later, the department told him he owed all of the money back.
He said he doesn’t have his parents to fall back on and he’s living paycheck to paycheck.
“And then having like, ‘Oh, by the way, you owe $4,000 to the state.’ There were times when I’m just like, ‘What am I going to do? Where is the light at the end of the tunnel?’ Because right now there is nothing.”
The Alabama Department of Labor did not respond to a request for comment. In the past the department has said it cannot comment on ongoing litigation.
During the pandemic, the department of labor had staffing shortages and technological problems that contributed to a significant backlog in processing applications. According to the Century Foundation, delays continue. By 2024 Alabama had the slowest rate of processing appeals of any state at an average of 752 day delay. In contrast, other states are processing appeals within 10 days. In 2024, Alabama has the highest rate of denying unemployment claims of any state. In 2024 Alabama’s denial rate was 377 %, more than three times greater than the second highest state, Nebraska, according to the foundation, which notes that rates can be over 100 percent if decisions are delayed.
In 2022, Governor Kay Ivey called the situation “outrageous.”
Johnson doesn’t know if or when his case will be resolved. He has gone through multiple attempts to appeal. After the first, the department decided in his favor and asked for a repayment of just $700, a smaller amount than he was told he owed initially. But it didn’t seem to matter. In the spring of 2022 he got another overpayment letter, once again saying he owed $4,000.
“I called them and said, ‘Hey, I’ve already had an appeal. They awarded in my favor. Why is it still saying I owe this money?’ The woman looked up my (account), she said, ‘Oh yeah, you’re right. They did award it. This seems to be an error. I’m going to take care of this. You don’t have to worry about it. Have a good day.’ And I’m thinking, ‘Okay, wonderful.’”
But that didn’t work either. A month later he got a notice in the mail telling him he still owed $4,000. What was even more confusing, he said, none of the 60 or 70 pages of communication he had received by that point explained why he owed the money. At that point, he sought out a lawyer. He felt it was a matter of principle that he not pay back the money. He said it often seemed that what he heard from the department staff contradicted what he read on the website.
“It has completely shattered my faith in the Alabama Department of Labor, completely shattered my faith in any sort of government bureaucracy. It makes me not want to buy into a system that I feel like everyone should want to buy into.”
He learned later that he could have asked for the overpayment to be forgiven but because he appealed, he lost the privilege to do that. But he said the website only directed him to appeal.
“So all they tell you is, ‘Oh yeah, you can appeal here.’ So by going with the first thing that they suggest I do, I end up disqualifying myself from just being able to ask, ‘Can you forgive this?’”
Alabama’s troubled unemployment response is the focus of a U.S. Supreme Court case that is scheduled for oral arguments in October. The case is focused on whether Alabamians must go through the appeals process, despite its delays, before being able to sue the department in state court over the delays.
Meanwhile, Alabama continues to demand repayment from people who got benefits during COVID-19. The Department of Labor declined to tell AL.com how many Alabamians are facing overpayment demands due to ongoing litigation. Many people stuck battling over repayments say navigating the process and understanding why they are being told to pay back the money is nearly impossible.
At the time COVID arrived, April Spivey was pregnant and working at Sonic in north Alabama.
“We didn’t know how it affected pregnant people yet. And I was having to get iron infusions. I had to go every day for a week to get iron infusions because my iron was low and I was just stressed out. It was adding a lot of stress to me. And I even showed up at work crying one day and I don’t even cry in front of people. So I was trying to tell my boss what was going on.”
Her doctor said she shouldn’t work due to uncertainty about COVID and pregnancy and gave her a note. She applied for unemployment, the department sent her something for her doctor to fill out, and she was approved.
Then in June of 2020, when her benefits ended, Spivey said she got her first overpayment letter. The state was demanding she pay back $2,475. In Oct. of 2021 she got a new letter saying she now owed a total of $7,000.
“I was shocked because I don’t understand how you can pay me for months and then tell me I wasn’t even eligible the whole time.”
Spivey, 32, is a mother of five and lives in government housing in Athens. Today she works as a delivery driver for Walmart so that her kids’ Dad can stay home and care for them
She said she still owes about $7,000. She appealed the overpayment in February and they denied her appeal because she was unable to work at the time she got the benefits, due to pregnancy complications, and being able to work is a precondition of eligibility.
Spivey said she had two different hearings, which she thinks were for different portions of the money she was asked to repay. She wanted to appeal after the second hearing, but she spoke to a lawyer who told her that because she didn’t appeal after the first, it was too late.
“I just don’t have the money to pay $7,000. I guess in my mind, I’m just hoping that somehow I can get them to tell me I don’t owe it.”
C.K. Lichenstein worked for the Alabama Brewers Guild when COVID hit. He lost his job as event sponsorship and memberships dried up during the pandemic. He was on unemployment for a few months before the state ended his unemployment. He lived on savings while he relocated to Denver, Colorado. He spent a couple of months searching for a job and found one in the brewing industry by December of 2021. In March of this year, he got mail from the department.
“Out of the blue I received a letter,” he said. It demanded photos of him with his ID. The due date for replying was the same day he received the letter, he said. He has not received an overpayment notice and is confused by the communication.
“Reaching someone there is nigh impossible,” he said of the department, adding that he later was able to talk to a person at the department. “I feel I’m luckier than most in my experiences with the department,” he said.
Spivey, the mother of five, remains unsure of her options. The last time Spivey tried to appeal was February of this year. She wants to see if she can get a waiver to get the amount forgiven, but she said she doesn’t know how to apply for a waiver. She said someone at a legal aid group told her to look up the process online.
She knows the state might take her tax return to repay the money. That’s something she usually spends on her children, buying things like a bed or a dresser to replace the plastic containers they had used to hold clothing.
“I have a car payment, I have insurance, and I’m not on food stamps right now, so I’m having to buy food for seven people. I mean, yeah, it’s just been horrible,” she said. “I feel like this is just kind of a setup, honestly.”
For Spencer Johnson, memorizing three Japanese writing systems has been easier than deciphering Alabama’s unemployment system.
“The most confusing thing I have ever done,” he said of trying to negotiate with the Alabama Department Labor, a group whose bungled handling of pandemic benefits will wind up in front of the U.S. Supreme Court in October.
Johnson, 30, is studying Japanese at the University of Alabama and has launched a business to help English and Japanese speakers broach the language divide. He plans to finish his degree in Japan. But, like many in Alabama, he’s still trying settle an old unemployment dispute, as the state wants him to give back $4,000.
Many Alabamians who got unemployment benefits during the pandemic, both the state money and the extra $600 from the federal government, have received notices over the last four years that they were overpaid and owe money back, often thousands of dollars, in many cases due to errors in the department’s clunky computer system, small mistakes in their applications or missing information.
Expand article logo Continue reading
When COVID hit, Johnson was in his last semester at Coastal Alabama Community College. He got hired to work for the Census for the summer and was going to Tuscaloosa to start UA for the fall of 2020. He started onboarding for the job and was immediately let go because of COVID, so he applied for unemployment. After a few months, when school started, Johnson said, he voluntarily quit getting benefits.
A couple of years later, the department told him he owed all of the money back.
He said he doesn’t have his parents to fall back on and he’s living paycheck to paycheck.
“And then having like, ‘Oh, by the way, you owe $4,000 to the state.’ There were times when I’m just like, ‘What am I going to do? Where is the light at the end of the tunnel?’ Because right now there is nothing.”
The Alabama Department of Labor did not respond to a request for comment. In the past the department has said it cannot comment on ongoing litigation.
During the pandemic, the department of labor had staffing shortages and technological problems that contributed to a significant backlog in processing applications. According to the Century Foundation, delays continue. By 2024 Alabama had the slowest rate of processing appeals of any state at an average of 752 day delay. In contrast, other states are processing appeals within 10 days. In 2024, Alabama has the highest rate of denying unemployment claims of any state. In 2024 Alabama’s denial rate was 377 %, more than three times greater than the second highest state, Nebraska, according to the foundation, which notes that rates can be over 100 percent if decisions are delayed.
In 2022, Governor Kay Ivey called the situation “outrageous.”
Johnson doesn’t know if or when his case will be resolved. He has gone through multiple attempts to appeal. After the first, the department decided in his favor and asked for a repayment of just $700, a smaller amount than he was told he owed initially. But it didn’t seem to matter. In the spring of 2022 he got another overpayment letter, once again saying he owed $4,000.
“I called them and said, ‘Hey, I’ve already had an appeal. They awarded in my favor. Why is it still saying I owe this money?’ The woman looked up my (account), she said, ‘Oh yeah, you’re right. They did award it. This seems to be an error. I’m going to take care of this. You don’t have to worry about it. Have a good day.’ And I’m thinking, ‘Okay, wonderful.’”
But that didn’t work either. A month later he got a notice in the mail telling him he still owed $4,000. What was even more confusing, he said, none of the 60 or 70 pages of communication he had received by that point explained why he owed the money. At that point, he sought out a lawyer. He felt it was a matter of principle that he not pay back the money. He said it often seemed that what he heard from the department staff contradicted what he read on the website.
“It has completely shattered my faith in the Alabama Department of Labor, completely shattered my faith in any sort of government bureaucracy. It makes me not want to buy into a system that I feel like everyone should want to buy into.”
He learned later that he could have asked for the overpayment to be forgiven but because he appealed, he lost the privilege to do that. But he said the website only directed him to appeal.
“So all they tell you is, ‘Oh yeah, you can appeal here.’ So by going with the first thing that they suggest I do, I end up disqualifying myself from just being able to ask, ‘Can you forgive this?’”
Alabama’s troubled unemployment response is the focus of a U.S. Supreme Court case that is scheduled for oral arguments in October. The case is focused on whether Alabamians must go through the appeals process, despite its delays, before being able to sue the department in state court over the delays.
Meanwhile, Alabama continues to demand repayment from people who got benefits during COVID-19. The Department of Labor declined to tell AL.com how many Alabamians are facing overpayment demands due to ongoing litigation. Many people stuck battling over repayments say navigating the process and understanding why they are being told to pay back the money is nearly impossible.
At the time COVID arrived, April Spivey was pregnant and working at Sonic in north Alabama.
“We didn’t know how it affected pregnant people yet. And I was having to get iron infusions. I had to go every day for a week to get iron infusions because my iron was low and I was just stressed out. It was adding a lot of stress to me. And I even showed up at work crying one day and I don’t even cry in front of people. So I was trying to tell my boss what was going on.”
Her doctor said she shouldn’t work due to uncertainty about COVID and pregnancy and gave her a note. She applied for unemployment, the department sent her something for her doctor to fill out, and she was approved.
Then in June of 2020, when her benefits ended, Spivey said she got her first overpayment letter. The state was demanding she pay back $2,475. In Oct. of 2021 she got a new letter saying she now owed a total of $7,000.
“I was shocked because I don’t understand how you can pay me for months and then tell me I wasn’t even eligible the whole time.”
Spivey, 32, is a mother of five and lives in government housing in Athens. Today she works as a delivery driver for Walmart so that her kids’ Dad can stay home and care for them
She said she still owes about $7,000. She appealed the overpayment in February and they denied her appeal because she was unable to work at the time she got the benefits, due to pregnancy complications, and being able to work is a precondition of eligibility.
Spivey said she had two different hearings, which she thinks were for different portions of the money she was asked to repay. She wanted to appeal after the second hearing, but she spoke to a lawyer who told her that because she didn’t appeal after the first, it was too late.
“I just don’t have the money to pay $7,000. I guess in my mind, I’m just hoping that somehow I can get them to tell me I don’t owe it.”
C.K. Lichenstein worked for the Alabama Brewers Guild when COVID hit. He lost his job as event sponsorship and memberships dried up during the pandemic. He was on unemployment for a few months before the state ended his unemployment. He lived on savings while he relocated to Denver, Colorado. He spent a couple of months searching for a job and found one in the brewing industry by December of 2021. In March of this year, he got mail from the department.
“Out of the blue I received a letter,” he said. It demanded photos of him with his ID. The due date for replying was the same day he received the letter, he said. He has not received an overpayment notice and is confused by the communication.
“Reaching someone there is nigh impossible,” he said of the department, adding that he later was able to talk to a person at the department. “I feel I’m luckier than most in my experiences with the department,” he said.
Spivey, the mother of five, remains unsure of her options. The last time Spivey tried to appeal was February of this year. She wants to see if she can get a waiver to get the amount forgiven, but she said she doesn’t know how to apply for a waiver. She said someone at a legal aid group told her to look up the process online.
She knows the state might take her tax return to repay the money. That’s something she usually spends on her children, buying things like a bed or a dresser to replace the plastic containers they had used to hold clothing.
“I have a car payment, I have insurance, and I’m not on food stamps right now, so I’m having to buy food for seven people. I mean, yeah, it’s just been horrible,” she said. “I feel like this is just kind of a setup, honestly.”